Showing posts with label radical prostatectomy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label radical prostatectomy. Show all posts

Sunday, March 9, 2014

Men with High Gleason Score Prostate Cancer should be given honest appraisals and expectations of outcomes from treatment

Men with a Gleason score 8-10 cancers have a significant chance of not being cured by radical prostatectomy.  Only in very exceptional circumstances would a man with a Gleason score 8-10 cancer be offered surgery if extent of disease scans (typically scans such as a bone scan and CT scan of the abdomen and pelvis) show evidence of spread to other organs.  

The vast majority of men with Gleason score 8-10 prostate cancer are offered surgery because there is no objective sign of cancer spread on scans and provided other factors such as age and concurrent medical problems are not likely to be an issue.  The big BUT is that if such scans fail to show signs of spread, it does not mean that spread has not occurred.  We know for a significant number (at least 30-50%) will have already had microscopic spread that is simply beyond the resolution of the scans to detect.  In other words, let’s say that some cancer cells from the prostate gland have managed to enter into blood vessels or lymphatic vessels and travel all the way to either the bones or lymph glands respectively. Remember that tiny deposits less than a millimetre is size would have no chance of being seen by a scan.  Before operating on such men, we need to be honest with them about this possibility.  They need to recognise that even if we are to successfully remove the prostate and have the prostate specimen margins free of cancer, it does not mean that they have necessarily been cured.  It is simply one of a number of hurdles that have been jumped over.

Having a Gleason score 8-10 prostate cancer is bad enought but if we look at men who have Gleason score 10 cancer in particular, we would regard these men as having a very high (not just high) risk of existing microscopic spread.  When these men undergo radical prostatectomy, a typical expectation is that less than 40% will be alive in 10 years without having signs of detectable spread of the cancer.  Even fewer will be alive with signs of cancer having returned as evidenced by their PSA blood test levels. In other words, most men with Gleason score 10 cancer will not be able to be cured.  This of course does not mean that these men should not be offered treatment with curative intent but it is an indication that appropriate counselling be offered and that men not be given false expectations about their prognosis.  It would be brave to suggest to such men that after surgery for a Gleason score 10 cancer, that they had ‘beaten it’ just because the surgical specimen showed that the excision margins did not have cancer at the edges (also known as positive surgical margins).  Another consideration is that these men who have arguable the worst prognosis, should be offered the opportunity to participate in clinical trials give them access to additional promising treatments that could offer them the best hope of overcoming these cancers. In my opinion, this is less likely to be offered in the setting of treatment by commercially driven surgeons.

There is more to treatment decision making processes than what the Gleason score is found to be on prostate biopsies. This blog piece attempts to show just one aspect of how we consider how we embark upon offering the best for our patients. 

The intention was not to make this blog piece sound like an argument against offering men with the most aggressive prostate cancers any treatment.  I regularly offer men with clinically localised 'high risk' prostate cancer treatment with curative intent.  In spite of our recognition that many will experience signs of failure to cure the disease, treatment offers these men their best chance.  Recent randomised control trial data shows that there is increasing evidence that treatment for this particular group of men makes a clinically relevant impact upon their survival.   

On a final note, I draw attention to a tweet from Dr David Samadi who is a 'celebrity' urologist who claims cure rates of 97% from prostate cancer surgery - he indicates that he has a patient who had just recently undergone surgery who had now ‘beaten the disease’ and is celebrating. You make up your own mind whether the patient has been given realist expectations on what the future holds for his cancer.  When the PSA starts rising, will Dr Samadi look after him now that the surgery is done, or simply refer him to another specialist (medical or radiation oncologist) to manage something that is no longer for him to look after? I do not know the answers to these questions but leave it in your mind to decide.


Sunday, August 25, 2013

A Personal Perspective on Testing for Prostate Cancer - 2013


As an urologist who has subspecialized in just the area of prostate disease, I see men with prostate cancer every working day.  Every single consulting session I will see a number of men with advanced prostate cancer who are enduring either the side effects of the palliative drug treatment for advanced prostate cancer or who are battling the complications associated with advanced prostate cancer. 

In Australia, over 3,200 men die from prostate cancer each year.  This is a greater number than the women who succumb to breast cancer each year.  Irrespective of what the denominator is in terms of how many are diagnosed each year, as the second greatest cause of cancer specific deaths in men (after lung cancer), it is continues to astound me that anybody can sweep these facts under the carpet.  But to give the denominator, number of men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer in Australia each year currently sits at just under 20,000. 

It is well recognized that not all men diagnosed with prostate cancer will actually die from their cancer but will instead die from some other cause.  The majority of cancers will follow an indolent slow growing course and will never cause harm. This said, these statistics include men who in spite of dying with prostate cancer (and not from it) have significantly suffered from the effects or treatment for advanced prostate cancer or were successfully treated for prostate cancer that otherwise have lead to a prostate cancer related death.

The overzealous desire to fight prostate cancer has had significant consequences.  Many men who did not need treatment have been unnecessarily treated and of these, some have experienced complications associated with radical treatment.  This has been a huge problem and with its recognition, attempts are being made to rectify this problem.  Significant progress has been made in getting smarter about who needs treatment and also reducing the risks of complications associated with treatment.

Not all men diagnosed with prostate cancer need treatment.  There has been a major shift towards treating early stage prostate cancer conservatively by what we call active surveillance and watchful waiting.  Active surveillance differs from watchful waiting in that curative treatment has not been ruled out.  Active surveillance is a program of monitoring that attempts to strike the right balance between avoiding the overtreatment of prostate cancer yet at the same time attempting to minimize of missing any window of opportunity to deal with the cancer should it subsequently prove itself to be more aggressive than originally anticipated. Protocols for active surveillance vary but contemporary monitoring includes monitoring PSA blood test levels and periodically carrying out MRI scans of the prostate or progress biopsies.  If there is evidence that suggests that the cancer is more aggressive than originally thought or if the disease appears to have progressed, the option of treatment remains on the cards.  Watchful waiting implies that curative treatment has been ruled out and monitoring is carried out until such time that the disease progresses to justify the commencement of palliative drug treatment in the form of androgen deprivation therapy (commonly referred to as hormone therapy).

There has also been a significant improvement in side effects associated with treatment for prostate cancer.  The majority of men with very early stage prostate cancer are candidates for treatment that can spare both urinary and sexual function.  Commonly, detractors against prostate cancer testing attempt to connect urinary incontinence and erectile dysfunction as being consequential certainties associated with prostate cancer testing.

Now on the issue of PSA blood testing, there have been quite polarized views on whether it should be performed or not.   I have tried to avoid the word ‘screening’ because I think that most of us who have in the past supported this approach have moved very much towards selected testing on an individual basis where each man as an individual has the opportunity to participate in the decision to undergo testing or not.

I think that it is time that those who so vehemently oppose PSA testing should acknowledge that an entity that is the second greatest cause of cancer related death in men is a public health problem.  It is also time to stop assertions that if a PSA test is abnormal that it leads to a high risk of complications with the biopsy and that should cancer be confirmed that it some form of aggressive intervention will invariably follow.  Additionally, we have moved on from the outcomes of 20years ago in that treatment is NOT invariably associated with incontinence and erectile dysfunction.




The answer for PSA testing lies somewhere between widespread population screening and totally opposing any form of testing at all.  I am looking forward to those who have vehemently opposed any form of testing for prostate cancer to acknowledge this as well.





Concluding Comments

I am NOT in favor of indiscriminate population screening for prostate cancer.  Men should be risk assessed as to whether the benefits of making a diagnosis of prostate cancer individually outweighs the attendant risks.  Men should NOT be denied the right to participate in any discussion regarding a decision to undergo prostate cancer testing or not.  I completely disagree with any assertion that there should no discussion about prostate cancer testing unless raised by the patient.  When men are counseled on making a decision as to whether or not they wish to be tested, they should be given information that is relevant to their individual circumstances.  The Melbourne Consensus Statement on Prostate Cancer Testing is a good place to start. 






Acknowledgement:  I wish to thank Katy Hanlon for creating the images that accompany this piece.  Katy can be contacted on Twitter @khanlon 

Thursday, August 15, 2013

Update on Transitioning From Open to Robotic Assisted Radical Prostatectomy


Since I first blogged on robotic surgery in July last year, it has become the predominant manner by which I perform prostate cancer surgery.  I continue to offer open surgery and particularly for those who cannot afford the cost of robotic surgery - it is important to not make them feel inadequate and that there is a reasonable alternative approach available.  Robotic surgery for prostate cancer is rapidly moving towards being the predominant manner by which prostate cancer surgery is being performed in Australia.  

Sydney had the lowest concentration of robotic platforms per capita in any of the mainland capital cities and for many years there was only one hospital with the technology.  Subsequent to a second hospital acquiring the technology and the significant marketing that followed, the dominos fell rapidly.  In the space of less than two years, there are now 7 hospitals in Sydney which now gives it the highest concentration of robotic platforms in Australia.  The competition for men to undergo robotic assisted radical prostatectomy has never been more palpable.  Many surgeons feel they are being forced into the technology on the basis of marketing pressures rather than being able to transition into the technology on their own terms. There has been a sense of urgency for surgeons to enter into the robotics space and enthusiastically offer their services and there is this sense of urgency for surgeons to announce that they have reached a certain threshold of cases or are now the most experienced with the technology for a particular geographical part of Sydney.  The tenor of competitive marketing material has lowered to include accusations of how one hospital is much more expensive than another without any factual basis to make such statements.  

One surgeon's overzealous attempts to market his services went to the extremes of misleading readers of his training credentials and true level of experience.  His marketing was excessive to the extreme that he has been formally counselled by his university and reprimanded by our professional body, the Urological Society of Australia and New Zealand.  He has also been referred to the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons for investigation of breach of its Code of Practice and to the Australian Health Practitioners Regulatory Authority for investigation of breach of advertising regulations.  Others have provided more carefully crafted glossy brochures to referring general practitioners and it is becoming increasingly common to have the addition of the term "Robotic Surgeon" to their professional stationary.  I hope that I will continue to not have to resort to these measures in order to maintain my existing sub-specialised practice in prostate surgery.  

I digress for just a moment to recount how a mentor of mine once told me when I started practice that the best advertising you could do was to look after your patients well.  In other words, your patients would be your best advertisement. Maybe this is an old fashioned approach but for as long as this still works for me, then I will consider myself fortunate.  That said, back on topic.

I feel very grateful for the fact that I have been in the position to pick and choose which patients that I felt that I could safely offer robotic surgery instead of open surgery in my hands.  This enabled me to get comfortable with doing easier cases before taking on more complex cases.  I am now comfortable with offering robotic assisted radical prostatectomy for all men for whom surgery is an appropriate option.   I have been extremely fortunate to have undergone transitioning to this technology in an era where training tools (such as the virtual reality simulator), an established technique and surgical proctoring were so readily available to me.  I am particularly grateful for my friends and colleagues Damien Bolton (Melbourne) and Peter Swindle  (Brisbane) making an effort to come to Sydney to help train me without accepting any remuneration for my over and above minimum expected proctored cases.

Robotic surgery is clearly here to stay and to be fair, the advantages of  less pain and quicker recovery have turned out to be more profound than what I had anticipated.  It was very easy to be critical of such claims when I had no personal experience with the technology and given that I had thought that my patients undergoing open surgery were doing just fine with no need improve upon this.  It has also been gratifying to see that my cancer clearance rates and recovery of continence are unchanged although I have an impression that the latter is actually better.  It is too early to know for sure of my outcomes for recovery of erectile function but my impression at this early stage is that it may in fact be better.  In spite of great anxiety and trepidation in making this transition, it is pleasing to report that my personal experience with adopting robotic surgery has turned out to be a particularly positive and exciting period of my surgical career.   My only disappointment has been the aggressive marketing and collegial fragmentation seen in association with the rapid uptake of the technology.  As one very astute GP wrote to me regarding a second opinion referral that he had sent to me: "I am concerned that the joy of a new technology and one's desire to expand their series is impacting on clinical decision making" - I sincerely hope that the race to adopt robotic surgery does not become a prostate harvesting exercise after the huge leaps forward that have been made in embracing conservative approaches such as active surveillance for those with clinically insignificant disease.  

Saturday, July 14, 2012

Transitioning to Robotic Assisted Surgery

I am a relatively late comer in adopting the robotic assisted surgical approach to radical prostatectomy for prostate cancer. If you look at this piece from the New York Times, you will understand why I have little real choice other than to offer this to my patients (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/health/14robot.html? _r=1&emc=eta1). The article is now a couple of years old but we were able to resist being forced into this new technology in Sydney, Australia until now. This time last year, there was only one hospital with a Da Vinci robotic system. Having surgery performed at that hospital is expensive and compared to some surgeons fees elsewhere, multiples of times greater. Colleagues in Melbourne, where robotic surgery has long been the norm, have reported that they regularly saw patients from Sydney as a result of the cost of surgery there being significantly less, even allowing for flights and accommodation. When consideriing the maximum numbers of patients that could physically be treated at one hospital in Sydney, the finite numbers of men who were prepared to pay the large costs of such treatment and those prepared to travel interstate, these numbers were never going to threaten the viability of a urologist's prostate cancer practice in a city the size of Sydney. Fast forward to less than 12 months later, we now have 4 hospitals with Da Vinci systems that are up and running with another two hospitals likely to have systems installed by the end of this year. The dominos have well and truly fallen, but it was only a matter of time when the last Australian capital city strong hold of open radical prostatectomy surgery would buckle to the market forces. The acquisition of this technology at my hospital has meant that I have had to undergo intense training to make the transition. I am grateful for the fact that as a later adopter, I have had access to training materials that were not available to colleagues only a few years earlier. In recent years, an excellent surgical simulator has been developed and this has made a huge difference to my transition from open to robotic assisted radical prostatectomy. The need to train for robotic assisted radical prostatectomy seemed perfectly timed. I was due to attend the American Urological Association Annual Meeting in Atlanta and this provided a perfect opportunity to attend various live surgery opportunities at that meeting as well as to attend laboratory training whilst in the USA. At the AUA meeting, I made a point of attending a number of interactive live surgical demonstrations of the surgery being performed as well as attend scientific sessions relevant to the technology. Immediately following the meeting, I took a flight to the San Francisco Bay Area and took the opportunity to attend surgery being performed by the renown Professor Peter Carroll at the University of California San Francisco Medical Center. Apart from seeing the actual surgery, it was instructive to see the dynamics within the operating theatre set up. The next day, I attended the Intuitive headquarters at Sunnyvale where they have a large training facility. It was a full day of intensive training with just myself with one Da Vinci system allocated to me, one professional trainer allocated to me as well as one anaethetised pig upon which the surgery was performed. We were quickly reassured and could see first hand that the pigs were dealt with in a completely humane manner. It has been stated that 9 to 10 hours on the simultor ought to be a minimum amount of time spent on the surgical simulator. After I had done this for 9 to 10 hours, I was regularly achieving 100% scores in the numerous exercises offered by the simulator. when I thought carefully about my own progress, I recognised that my 100% scores were really about me having mastered the technique of getting the simulator computer to tell me that I am doing well. In reality, I certainly had the technical basics mastered but I was far from fluent with my economy of motion and where the operation of both the hand and foot controls felt close to being second nature. On this basis, I pushed on and did over 40 hours on the simulator. I also made a point of spacing out the sessions over a number of weeks and using the time in between to reflect upon my progress. Additional to the simulator, an excellent trainer device has been created. A plastic model the shape and size of a human torso houses a plastic bladder and urethra - this formed an excellent model upon which suturing of the bladder to the urethra could be practised. This stage of training was intentionally left until I had completed the hours that I had determined that I would wish to do, and had I attempted this stage after only say 9 or 10 hours on the simulator, I would not have been able to repeatedly join the model bladder to the urethra with evenly positioned and tensioned sutures. Additional to the above were hours spent doing the on-line training modules created by the manufacturers as well as countless hours watching recorded DVDs of the procedures as well as U-tube videos - this was probably in the order of 40 to 50 hours. As we approached the days on which I would perform my first cases, we did a 'dry run' in the operating room to clarify what went where and who did what. A proctor well experienced in this surgery was organised at my expense to attend my first three cases. It is generally recommended that at least three proctored cases be undertaken but I had decided from the outset that this was inadequate. A period of reflection followed my first three cases associated with further numerous hours watching procedural DVDs. A further two proctored cases were performed and these were also completely successfully performed procedures. These additional two cases gave me significant confidence that I was now ready to commence solo practice with this technology. Having done over 1500 open radical prostatectomy procedures in addition to taking the preparatory training well above the minimum requirements has in my mind made an enormous difference. Having said this, I still do not have the fluency that I enjoy with open surgery, but mainly because I am being overly cautious and prefering to take things slowly and at all times having the patient's safety as the priority over surgical pride in how quickly the procedure can be performed. For now I will continue to offer open surgery but robotic assisted radical prostatectomy is offered to those who desire this technology. The conclusions that I reach from personal experience (and clearly not on the basis of a scientific trial) is that the current minimum requirements before a surgeon can independently perform robot assisted radical prostatectomy should be raised to a much higher level. Nobody gets hurt by doing too many hours on a simulator or doing too many proctored cases. Patients will get hurt in learning curves when shortcuts are taken to get onto the bandwagon. Lets also get rid of the threshold of 20 cases to be officially gazetted as a robotic surgeon - all this does is encourage a race to get to this caseload experience which could be at the detriment of patient safety.

Thursday, February 24, 2011

Paying to have surgery performed in a public hospital? What’s the spin on this?

When a non-insured patient undergoes surgery in the public hospital system, the costs of treatment are worn by the public hospital system. As a public or non-insured or Medicare patient, it is accepted that their care, including surgery, will be primarily in the hands of registrars who are generally doctors in accredited advanced specialty training programmes. Senior specialist doctors are responsible for the supervision of the registrars who generally provide a superb service and are good at what they do. As registrars are not yet fully qualified as specialist doctors, they still require guidance and supervision from senior medical staff.

In NSW, we have seen the system of ‘self insured’ or ‘private elect’ or ‘self pay’ patients being encouraged in the cash strapped public hospital system. Under such an arrangement, a non-insured patient can elect to be a ‘private patient’ for two days of their admission to hospital in order to have the doctor of their choice performs their procedure or surgery. After the two days are over, they revert to being a ‘public’ or ‘Medicare’ patient. A typical fee charged by NSW public hospitals to exercise this right is $660. Additional to this, the patient will have to wear the cost of ‘out of pocket’ fees from the surgeon and anaesthetist so it can end up being a costly exercise. The hospitals are ever happy to see patients exercise this right as it means additional funds that they would otherwise not have to run their budgets. Government funding is essentially fixed so these funds are a bonus. Hospitals have indirectly encouraged this process by issuing memos to doctors reminding them that this service is available and encouraging doctors to allow their patients to know of the availability of this service. More recently, the addition of a check box for “Self Pay” amongst the various check boxes that determine the funding status of the patient have appeared on public hospital surgery booking forms (See picture below). Other check boxes include “Private” (means that they are in a private health fund), “Public” (means non-insured Medicare patient) and “Veteran Affairs” (cost covered by Department of Veteran Affairs). The “Self Pay” check box is strategically positioned as the first check box in the list although the most commonly ticked box, being “Public” is well 'down' the list.

There is a belief by a number of surgeons (and patients for that matter), that the option of being self insured should be highlighted at the time of consultation. There is also the belief that it should be reinforced that the surgery in the public hospital will generally be performed by a registrar rather than the consultant surgeon. This latter disclosure could arguably be something that all non-insured patients already know, given that accessing the hospital system through the Medicare system does not afford them a choice of surgeon. I absolutely agree with providing such information as part of the informed consent process but there are of course ways in which this can disclosed. You can either disclose it as a routine matter of fact or it can be presented in a way to scare the living daylights out of your patient and leave them thinking of certain surgical misadventure if the registrar was to be doing the operating.

Will it make a difference if the registrar does the operation instead of the consultant surgeon? Repeated scientific papers evaluating this have demonstrated that in the setting of close and meticulous supervision, that there are no difference in the outcomes. Once more, I repeat that the key to good outcomes is the close and meticulous supervision of the trainees. An argument used to oppose this view is that the surgeon who has had less experience or has done fewer numbers of cases might have inferior results - there have certainly been some publications which suggest this to be the case. This effect as observed in fully trained surgeons cannot be extrapolated to the situation where a registrar is being closely monitored by an expert trainer. It is up to the surgeon to ensure that the registrar has reached a level of skill where they can tackle the various aspects of an operation and if not, it is incumbent upon the specialist surgeon to perform that part of the operation him or herself. If the surgeon does not believe the registrar has the ability to perform all or part of a procedure, then the surgeon is responsible for performing that part of the procedure whether the patient is insured or not insured.

There is one particular case that I was involved in several years ago and I have never been able to shake it completely from my thoughts. When I was still involved in caring for kidney stone problems, I had a patient who as a single working mother was doing it tough raising four kids by herself. She was incidentally found to have a problem that needed highly specialised surgery in a field outside of my own. She was obviously uninsured but this is exactly the type of person for whom the Medicare system was intended. I called up a specialist colleague who was somebody whom I felt that I could really trust and at that time regarded as a friend. I asked him to look after her and he assured me that he would. I saw her several months later and she was looking well and full of praise for my colleague. It soon came to light that she had taken out a second mortgage to pay for him to do her surgery in a public hospital. She told me how it was explained that the operation was too complicated for the registrar to do and that the only way he could do the surgery was for her to pay and be admitted as a “Self Pay” patient. I was shocked that she had been made to pay for this surgery when given its complexity, was not a case for the registrar to perform and he should have treated her without cost in the public hospital. It never ceased to amaze me how this lady was so upbeat about the experience even though her financial position was now precarious as ever. She was so grateful when I accepted her Medicare refund amount as full payment for her follow up consultation with me. I said nothing about my thoughts on this to the hospital administration or senior colleagues or the patient but as the years go by, I wonder if by my silence, I am as much to blame.

As a subspecialist prostate surgeon, it is not surprising that I have seen many second opinions from men who have already been seen by other urologists. Over the years, a couple have really stood out as cases I remember. One patient was a naturally sceptical type of person who was always quick to question motive and reliability of what was said to him. He was relieved to learn that I was only too happy to look after him as an uninsured patient at Westmead Public Hospital. He was aware that the registrar would be the primary surgeon but also that I would be there physically scrubbed in keeping a meticulous eye on every move made by the registrar and would be ready to take over any aspect of the procedure which I felt that the registrar was not performing to a sufficient standard. He was reassured that the chances of a catastrophic outcome as a result of the registrar operating were extremely low because of supervision. This is nothing more than what should be expected of a surgeon working in a teaching hospital and nothing short of an ethical responsibility. He disclosed to me that he sensed that he was being pressured into going in as a ‘Self Pay’ by implication that his outcome would be inferior with the registrar (who was not yet competent at performing the procedure) as well as several reminders that the surgeon himself had done superior training in radical prostatectomy surgery. A second case was a man who came to me almost in tears about his financial situation. He advised me that he felt too ashamed to go back because he could not afford the cost of going self insured. I felt it strange that he would be thanking me for accepting him as a public ‘uninsured’ patient as if his life depended on it. To be fair, these are the circumstances as put to me by these two men and I really do not know what was said by the original surgeon but I am sure that the original surgeon’s account would be different.

Over the last ten years, I have for the most part been a member of the NSW Training Accreditation and Education Committee which administers the urology registrar training programme in NSW. This position on the Committee, as well as being a hospital supervisor of urology training, has allowed me the privilege of getting to know many of the trainees more so than otherwise would have been the case. There is no secret that the trainees complain bitterly about lost training experience in the public hospitals when entire lists for specific surgeons are week after week filled with patients who have taken the ‘Self Pay’ option.

I advise all of my patients who are to be booked into the public hospital system that their surgery will primarily be performed by the registrar. Given that the cancer surgery I perform has many critical steps, it is not the type of surgery that I would permit any registrar to perform unsupervised. These men with cancer are vulnerable and anxious and I see it as my duty to try to provide them with reassurance that the risks of an adverse outcome should not be dissimilar to my own results if I performed the surgery myself. Again, it comes down to meticulous supervision. This is repeatedly supported in the literature where the results of surgery performed by trainees is examined. We also have to bear in mind that without this system of training, how else are the surgeons of the future to be trained? In some rotations, we see trainees complain bitterly of being deprived of surgical experience as yet another patient on the public hospital operating list is a self insured private patient. In spite of this, some of these very same complainants go onto to do the same when they complete their training. Hardly surprising given that surgeons are role models to the training doctors who attempt to replicate everything they are taught, both clinically and professionally.

So why would a surgeon wish to participate in encouraging patients to go into public hospitals as self insured patients? As a visiting medical officer working in the public hospital system or as a staff specialist, one would earn in the vicinity of $100-150 per hour which really does not cover the background costs of running your office in the private sector. Effectively, surgeons are in reality paying financially for the ‘privilege’ of working in the public hospital system. On the other hand, working in the public hospital brings rewards in referrals from general practitioners who wish surgeons to look after both their public and private patients. It also brings prestige depending on which institution one is working at. It also provides an opportunity to put something back into a system, without which, one could not have been trained in the first place. Additionally, the public hospital appointment might be tied in with a university academic title which can also enhance reputation. It’s a great give and take system. So if we return to the situation where a public patient undergoes a radical prostatectomy, the surgeon might earn say $600 with the hourly rate indicated above, but this does not cover the costs of paying rent, staff and general running costs of an office in the private sector. If the patient were to come in as a "Self Pay" patient, the minimum a surgeon would earn would earn would be $1396 which is 75% of the schedule fee and payable by Medicare (as of the November 2010 MBS published rates). More often than not, the fee charged will be much greater than this. Don’t forget that the patient is still up for the $660 self insured fee and the anaesthetic fees. From a financial viewpoint, it seems a no-brainer for the surgeon but that doesn’t make it right.

We must also remember that there will be cases where some patients will make that conscious decision that they wish to have the specialist surgeon perform their surgery. These patients should obviously not be denied their right to exercise the self insured option. These patients are relatively few. When a surgeon has almost every one of their patients on the operating list as ‘Self Pay’, you make your own judgement regarding coercion.

It is interesting that all surgeons in the public hospital system know that this type of thing is happening. Most either turn a blind eye, avoid the subject or pretend that it is not happening. I even had one surgeon, not realising my thoughts on the matter, say to me “well, we’re all doing it, aren’t we?”.

The use or misuse of the ‘Self Pay’ option in NSW Public Hospitals is widespread. The majority of surgeons do not partake in this type of activity but there are the well known several in every hospital. It is a minority of surgeons who abuse this system week in and week out. All surgeons are aware this is happening but it is very much a taboo subject for discussion, and for that matter, daring to raise it by written word. For surgeons, raising the matter potentially runs the risk of professional isolation, loss of mutual collegiate behaviour and stymied career progression. Making a scene over inappropriate behaviour with ‘Self Pay’ is not likely to get support from the hospital administrations that obviously have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. It is a lot easier to turn a blind eye but in doing so, we are perhaps being complicit to this whole behaviour. This practice will never change until patients come forward with complaints. Most patients do not wish to have conflict and are just glad to have their problem dealt with and wish to move on. Most I suspect are totally naive to the fact that being self insured is something that was probably never necessary in the first place.



Saturday, February 12, 2011

What makes somebody the best surgeon for you?

My colleagues and I have been working on our website with primary aim of being a portal for information about our practice as well as a source of documents relevant for patients of the practice.  We naturally look at what others in our field are doing with their websites to get an idea of what we like about some finished products and what we don’t like.  Some websites provide information to help you think that they are the right surgeon for you.

I found it fascinating to observe what things are said in order to bring in business and to convince the reader that they are dealing with the best surgeon for their condition.  Clearly there are many things that help determine what makes a surgeon the best for the job and amongst those, the things that are materially significant to some may not be to others.  One example is the bedside manner where a surgeon could have the reputation for being a meticulous and technically superior in their operative skills but where the bedside manner is abrupt, arrogant and seemingly uncaring.  Even for myself, I would have to admit that there are possibly some conditions where I would like one surgeon to do the decision making, another to be the technician (and then never see them again) and perhaps another to deal with the longer term monitoring (where you have to see them on a regular basis).
One of the statements made to generate the impression of prestige is boasting that he or she was the first to perform a certain operation in the state of NSW or Australia.  This could be indication that we are dealing with an innovative thinking surgeon who is always looking out for the latest advances to benefit patients but in the same breath could represent the surgeon who seeks to take a risk with their patient in hope of achieving kudos for their efforts.  Does the patient always know that they are the first?  Being the first to do a particular procedure does not necessarily mean that the individual is the most talented and technically adept at performing the procedure.

It is common practice to highlight one’s background training.  Fortunately for us in Australia, the overall standard of surgery is very high and what we call 'average' is frequently well above average for many other western countries.  Some countries have the most prestigious institutions performing high quality opinion leading work but in the next town, there might be an institution that is perhaps a little ordinary.  Okay, if a surgeon goes to a prestigious institution to round off their surgical training in Australia or to subspecialise, does this mean that they can lay claim to being the best at what they do?  The answer is yes and no.  With the yes, they may be exposed to the latest techniques, benefit from state of the art training and also taught to think critically with complex cases.  We rely on these surgeons to return to Australia and become key opinion leaders in their field.  Contrary to this, we have surgeons who were ‘clinically and technically average or even below average’ when they departed for additional training overseas in a prestigious institution and on their return to Australia, they are still ‘clinically and technically average or even below average’.  I have often heard of trainees who lament that a particular surgeon was very disappointing technically for what they expected - this was not said meaning to say that a particular surgeon was inadequate, but more that there was a higher expectation that we would be better given the constant reminders of where he or she had some training after obtaining their Australian qualiftications. Some of the most prestigious institutions to much surprise may also provide a less than satisfactory experience and hands on training and simply trade off their reputation as a place to seek further experience.  In terms of hands on experience, there are notably institutions in the USA where the surgical fellows are merely glorified surgical assistants who will tolerate stifling employment conditions knowing that it is simply a means to an end.  I sometimes tempted to say to some surgeons who cannot help but to tell you that they have been to the best institution in the world for additional training as follows:- "Listen here honey, you're back in Australia now and have to prove yourself and not ride on the back of the success of where you have been."  I am a great advocate of surgeons undertaking additional fellowship training following the completion of their surgical qualifications in Australia.  I do however, urge you all to remember that whilst being able to say that one has been the best institution in the world to have further training, it does not mean that the training in Australia should be devalued in any way and it does not mean that the surgeon has necessarily become a better surgeon for it. We should not underestimate the worth of the training that was received in Australia which really matches the best in the world.

What about how many of a certain type of operation one performs and how many they have done over their career?  A high career volume or a high annual case volume intuitively reflects experience, which is valued in whatever endeavour is undertaken.  Some surgeons only need to do an operation a few times to be performing it as well as another who does many more.  It is possible to do large numbers of certain procedures but perform all of them badly.  Levels of skill and the uptake of these skills can vary considerably as is the case with any profession.  There is no easy solution for navigating through this minefield when trawling through individual surgeon’s websites.  Perhaps the best question one can ask is as to whether they are performing audit of their surgical results.  In other words, are they getting the results that they think they are getting?  As surgeons, how do we know what we are doing if we do not measure our outcomes?  I have personally found the practice of audit to be both humbling and illuminating and the best guide to assist with making improvements to my outcomes.  But suggesting that we all aggressively audit our cases has the potential of coming at a price to the community.  If surgical results become the primary focus of marketing campaigns, it runs the risk of influencing surgical case selection in fear of damaging one’s ‘figures’.  It would be disastrous and simply unethical if we were to find ourselves in an environment where surgeons refused treatment to higher risk patients in order to protect their own statistics.

This discussion is not intended to create confusion over the meaning of certain claims made by surgeons who market their surgical practices on the internet.  The aim of this discussion, is to introduce a healthy questioning of what is stated on various surgical websites.  Being a good surgeon includes more than just the operating and all of you need to consider what is important for you when making your decision. If you are not comfortable with your existing opinion, think about getting a second opinion.  Funnily, the surgeons who actively trawl for second opinions are probably the ones that I personally would not see.  If they are that gifted and appreciated, they should not need to waste any space on their website enticing readers to come in and see them for a second opinion as they surely must be the best.  Great surgeons who are comfortable with what they do and who are recognised for what they do are well patronised from word of mouth and do not need to cast out invitations to see them for a second opinion.  My own feeling is that the good old-fashioned approach of seeking out personal recommendations still has a great deal of merit.  If you know of somebody who is going to have surgery of ANY sort, forward them this blog link and see what they think after reading this.